The Water Fuel Cell

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi All,
I have built a working toroid winder using a child's 12" bike tire rim as the shuttle.....I couldnt find a smaller rim for the shuttle but it was only 16 dollars (if you have a better idea, im all for it)...I cut the rim in one place on the weld, and mounted a bracket with screws that were beveled inward to hold it together...(I had to drill beveling into the inside surface of the rim to allow the beveled screws to be flush with the inside diameter)...I use the spokes to keep it togeter to fabricat the bracket...and I taped the bracket and cut the screws to match the height of the bracket surface...

The key to a toroid winder is the slider, I used a nylon nut that I cut on one side and drilled a hole on the other, and stuck a nylon screw through it to tighten down with, because the slider needs to only slide with the tension of the wire, and not sliding due to gravity....the rim was perfect for this because it already has a lip for the nut to hold on to...the rim, and the slider needs to be smooth so that the rim cut and the slider do not catch, this woudl break the wire...the rim and slider I have works great at all speeds and is very cheap...so if it breaks, more can be made...

then I found some wheels and a frame from a junkyard/electronics store and cut the frame to make a shape that would fit the toroid...I used stepper motors to move the shuttle (bike rim) and toroid manipulator, (toroid holder) I used the stepper motor diver found here:
http://www.aaroncake.net/Circuits/stepper.asp
but didnt have jk flip flops so i subed it with TTL logic D flipflops requiring two extra chips, and I always use AND gates as buffers...
I used slider wheels for the shuttle guids and attached springs to them to hold the shuttle in place, and I plan to add the wire guides using the arm in the picture and the aluminum piece of metal this weekend maybe...

The design of the toroid manipulator allows the wire to be put on with larger diameters created by high number of turns, using the spring and pivit point.. I was going to use a belt but I found that mounting it was easier..

The gearing of the shuttle motor and the toroid manipulator was done by using only dividers, as the diriver circuit steps one step per pulse from the function generator, so 2030 pulses made one turn of the shuttle, and I used 3, 4017 to make 2 steps (or close to it) for the toroid manipulator per one turn of the shuttle, and I threw in a 4040 to make 5 steps and 10 steps per shuttle turn with a switch to toggle between the settings for larger diameter wire...

The diver circuit requires less current, as the freq go up so if you have a variable 50V PS increasing the voltage increases the current fed to the motors allowing high rpms of th motor with enough torque to turn the shuttle..

All combined even though I did have alot of the materials laying around, the rim, the chips, the frame, the board, the wheels, and stepper motors, the hardware, were under 100 dollars with most of it comming from the junk store...

Here are some pics of the making of the winder and pics of a closely completed winder with a tape roll that was wound with no wire guides, and no helpping it except for the motor locking and changing the freq to start it again and increaseing the voltage...this was done in less that 20 mins, and it was about 400 feet of 32AWG wire..

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi,
I have completed the wire guides and tested it out...it makes acceptable windings...but I think I will try to impove it by electronically gearing the toroid manipulator better....the windings are not as close as I would like them to be....but if 10000 winds were put on by hand, I believe it would take me about 2 months...while this would do it in about 2 or 3 hours...

Things to improve...
1. gearing of toroid manipulator using the dividers..I think i can be more accurate to tighten the winding spacings together..
2. driver circuit of the motor, and possibly a newer driver motor...There are new motors for 20 dollars, and professionally built, current controled, stepper drivers for 40 dollars...while expensive, it would make a faster winder, and easyier to build...
3. Make a perfect shuttle from a rim...the one I got is good but not perfect...and maybe find a smaller shuttle...or bike rim...
4. Mounting the fan..I already cooked some transistors, and had to replace them...the fan and very large heat sink is necassary...

Here is a winding that was about 10 to 20 mins...I need more cheap testing mag wire...this is the expensive stuff so I didnt use alot...

2curious4WFC · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 97

Hi eclipsed,

great stuff, looking good so far. I agree, the spacing on the wires needs to be worked on. To
me it looks like there is not enough tension on the wire when winding and that the rubber rollers
advance not only the toroid but also move the windings a little bit. Anyway, great job.

Good luck and maximum success.

.

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi All,
I finished winding a roll of tape with the wire guides installed, and it made acceptable windings...I used 400 ft of 32 AWG wire, and made multiple layers...
Here is a picture of the end result and I posted some movies on utube...

Automatic Toroid Winder Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScfnMcMun-c
Edit 2/17/010 Video has been deleted due to youtubes new requirements

Automatice Toroid Winder Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt_Nz7SnSEg
Edit 2/17/010 Video has been deleted due to youtubes new requirements

Hopefully now I will get my core any time this year...I am not having a good experience with my supplier's custormer service...

keithturtle · Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 280 Location: Ohio, USA

That is most excellent, bro!

Now to get a little more control as the wire flops itself down onto the 'roid, to prevent the unwanted "back-spacing" effect.

Wait no more for a 4" core- PM me and there'll be one in the mail manana to ye, if yer in the states.

Compliments of Turtle Hydrogen.

God bless you, man!

Turtle

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi,
My new mosfets that I got, the APT17N80BC3 800 V 17 amp mosfets were well worth it...using them instead of the tip3055 transistors, I am able to get the shuttle to rotate at upwards of 240 rpm....instead of 40 to 60 rpm...I am currently modifing or fabricating a new toroid manipulator and wire guides to fit and turn the powdered iron cores that I got and I am still waiting on the MPP core that I ordered 3 months ago...

Visual Echo · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:04 am Post subject:

Sweet pie-eating Jesus, that's gorgeous. Are these sold commercially? I'm betting you've got an insurance rider on that one, it's priceless.

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi,

I have out lined how to make this, but I am not selling them nor am I even done with the one I have..I still need a better slider (still looking)...but just ask if you have any questions on how to make it....with even my upgrades, I have spent less than 200 on this, but commercially for the size of toroids this winds, I think it would go for about 10 grand...just guessing though...

Visual Echo · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:42 am Post subject:

Closer to $20K, I wrote a few emails. I'll be making my own, probably out of old copier machines, 16mm movie projectors, scotch tape, and clarinet reeds. Thank you for the reply!

itzon · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 23 Location: US

I did a little searching on the net and found a thread about building a toroid winder.

[url=]http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1085827[/url]

I have not read it all yet but there is some useful info.

Itzon

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi all..
I got tired of soldering the mosfets, so I wanted connectors but I couldn't find a standard connector for the TO-247 package....although there is a connector for the TO-220 package, it is too small for the TO-247 package...(I think digi key has the TO-220 connectors)...

So, I made my own..and I though someone else might be getting tired of soldering mosfets too...so here are some pictures on how the connectors are made....

I got the six hole connectors, but five hole connectors are better, the six hole connectors can be cut with an exacto knife to make the five hole connectors...

they should work ok with mosfets that are cooled well...although they are only rated to 2.5 amps, it is more like a temperature problem....

Stilll trying to find a better slider for the shuttle right now, becuase i think the wire would be better if it didnt even have to slide over the outer edge of the shuttle...hopefully Ill figure it out soon...

eclipsed78 · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 303

Hi,
I have almost completed the Automatic Toroid Winder (ATW) and it can go at least 6.5 turns per second, and lays the wire down almost perfect...also the blue box counter that I have, can count incoming pulses and therefore acts as turns counter, because the manipulator motor driver has a clock that is divded from the shuttle clock...relaying that signal to the counter basically counts the turns..the new and impoved....slider has three nylon bolts instead of one, and the wire does not tuch the side of the shuttle at all...so this leaves the speed of the winder up to the shuttle motor....which Im thinking about buying a professional motor, but the winder is already doing about 360 turns per min...that means 10000 turns in 30 mins and 20000 turns in 1 hour.....

dllabarre · Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Posts: 65

That's awesome!!!!

Now the question is "when are you going to start winding toroids for us and how much are you going to charge?" Very Happy

itzon · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 23 Location: US

Thats pretty darn fast compared to spending hours hand winding.

When you have a chance would you post a couple of pictures of the new slider in action? Maybe one from the side to show how the wire is on it.

Thanks,
Itzon

dllabarre · Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Posts: 65

I was just kidding about winding toroids......