The Water Fuel Cell

[Ron Knight]

Think for a moment what we are trying to accomplish with the water capacitor.
You are creating a dipole with a positive and a negative side.
How can you have a dipole that alternates from positive to negative?
The blocking diode is to make sure you get unidirectional energy flow.

It is all about context with trying to understand Stans reasons for using certain things. Stan did use a SS wire coil however that was in the injector and not the WFC PoC. Stan used copper wire transformers in the WFC PoC. It appears he used SS wire in the water PoC as the conductor path from the waterproof terminal to the tubing and not a transformer winding as some may think.

[stevie1001]

We all speak about getting higher voltage and lower amps.
What comes out of my tests and what seem to be logic in common electronics is as follows.

Setup: 13,5VDC powersupply max 12 amps.
Dave Lawton circuit
5 pipes 30 cm high
I made today the new coils as discribed in the new D14.pdf of Dave.
This means that the 2,5 cm ferriet coils with 100 windings of 0,7mm are in serie. One in the + and one in the -.
One diode in place to cut the resonance circle in half, to keep the polarity in place. Everything worked fine.
I got the resonance picture on my scope.

Then I started to measure the amps. The totall circuit is behind the ampmeter in my DL circuitbox and showed 1,5 amp. Nice bubbles.

But now I measured the amps between the coil and the WFC.
It showed 2 amps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I learned on university that if you have resonance in a serial setup the voltage is down and amps goes up.
And that is what I proved here. Everything that was expected happend.
But why am I dissapointed?
I was hoping to see lower amps.........
I saw lower voltage.....

Theory: by old electrolysis the ideal voltage is 1,43volt with alot of amps.
In this state there will be no head development.

ARE WE ALL WRONG? IS STANLEY MEYERS DISCOVERY NO MORE THEN SIMPLE BASIC ELECTROLYSIS?

Attached are more pics....

[Herman]

Hi,
Higher Amps and lower voltage is exactly what i noticed with my setup.
In the end that is not surprising at all since what one build here is very similar to a buck converter
or simply a (voltage) step down converter. The DC voltage should be proportional to duty cycle as long as the inductor current never falls to zero.

Therefore the best efficiency would be achieved with very low duty-cycle and a rather high frequency to hold ripple voltage low.
I really hope, this is not the only effect in Stans idea because it would be really disappointing and nothing new at all.
The only probability for me to get higher voltage was to use water with less electrolyte than tap-water
and use an step-up transformer, but the gas-rate and efficiency was rather poor here.
Greetings

[stevie1001]

Hi Herman,

Nice to know that somebody else gets the same confusing results.
I feel sometimes sooooooo loonly in my lab...............

So, whats next? I tryed yesterday to simulate the restistor version of Meyer in combination with my WFC. No results. Means no bubbles at all.
260VoltDC into the WFC and on the other pole a resistor to stop electrons.
Ok, there where a little bit of bubbles but not more than that. The bubbles looks the same as with 12VDC. But less and less bubbles.
I read that the trick should be that voltage must be set on the + pipe and that the voltage should pull electrons from the water instead of from the - connection.
Meyer draw a nice variable resistor in his patent, so I thought lets try that one.
I also connected a Car-bobine to my DL circuit. Output in kv. Same nul result.

Today I brake my big WFC down to modify the pipes. Cleaning and yes sanding the pipes. I also want to paint the outer pipes, so voltage is only applyed to the inner site of the outer pipes.
Lets see what that brings.

Good luck to you all.
If anybody has input of a succes test/story on a PARALLEL coil setup, please publishe!

Br
Steve

The one that always blows mosfets to mosfet heaven.....

[Ron Knight]

How are you guys wrapping your coils? Have you seen Aarons wrap which seems to be following Stans tech brief? Go here to Aaron's photo bucket:
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/imaaronhall/?action=view&current=trifilarVIC.jpg

You will notice with the wrap Aaron is using he has opposite EM fields in the chokes which help strip electrons away, you can get the same effect with copper just not as much electron stripping.

Look closely at figure 3-23 on page 3-38 of WFC memo 422 in Stan's tech brief. You will notice opposite polarity on the chokes. Also on page 7-17 figure 7-1 you will see coil orientation marks showing on the VIC impedance network. It is not just the SS wire; the wrap of the wire helps give you what you are looking for. Another thing I noticed on page 6-5 figure 580 of WFC memo 425 of Stan's tech brief the chokes are wrapped around the core first then the primary then the secondary. It is easy to overlook if you are not paying close attention; I know I did.


Hope this helps.

[Ron Knight]

Steve wrote:

[stevie1001]

Ron, you are right about many changes at the same time. But it is simple.
I have more pipes and WFC's. And more timer-circuits and coils. So I can do more changes at the same time.
To answer your questions:
I wrapped my coils all by hand. (Its a nasty job, but you know, somebody has to do it.)
I tryed many different ways of winding. The goal is to get a magnetic field with pulsed DC.
My best results are with the following coil.
Ferriet core of 1 cm diam. Lenght is 2,5cm
Copperwire of 0,7mm.
On this lenght you can put ca. 25 windings in one direction and then wind back and forward until you have 4 layers of wire. Total 100 windings.

I also did bifilair coils and thanks to some friends I learned how to connect it properly.
All other coils didnt work well, but its a good learning proces about coils.

The Pipes and conditioning:
You are right about the proces of conditioning. I have to do that again when finishing my cleaning and cutting.

But there is more.
Ron, we are with a lot of people focussing on the electronics and a bit on the pipes.
After all kinds of configurations with coils and trafo's I have made a conclusion. As Stanley said many times: Its all about securing his patents. In other words: CRAP.
Yes, you can double frequency with the VIC and Yes you can get higher voltage.
And he is smiling in his grave, if you ask me.
In all his patent with the VIC you see less info about his pipes/tubes. But if you read well, I think that there is the real thing happening.
He talks about resonance. The resonant cativy!!!!
He discripes three different designs of his resonant Cavity's.
Resonance in coils is what everybody understands and is trying with all the same bad results.
Are we all stupid? NO.
I tryed to find any info or tread in many forums about the Resonant Cavity stuff.
NOT much to find as well!
This is also a clue.
Stanley published a formula how to calculated his pipes with care.............
I try to find out what to do with that.
Focus: 20Khz is a nice frequency for getting Hydrogen. So how would pipes look like for resonanting on 20Khz? Its about lenght and spacing between the 2 pipes. Perhaps also about some kind of form of the pipe-ending. (sorry for my poor english)

Ron, what do think about my theory after all the time you spend with this subject?
(and all you other guys as well, of course......)

br
Steve

[h2o2go]

Hi Steve,

I'm just getting into this as a project but I have wondered about the resonance of the pipes as well. One of my thoughts was about mounting the pipes. I've looked at lots of pictures of different setups and nearly all have one or both ends of the pipes rigidly mounted. If the pipes' resonance is what's needed to assist the breakup of the water molecule then isn't everyone making their work harder by "locking down" the ability of the pipes to "ring"? From some of the pictures and vids I've seen, some of the best results were from test pipes that were merely suspended in the tank for testing instead of rigidly mounted.

My thoughts have been to "tune" the pipes to the same tone and then hang them in such a way that lets them vibrate with the frequencies being pumped into them. My thoughts were to drill holes through the paired pipes near the top and to notch the bottoms and then use ceramic rods to suspend them in the tank. They'd hang from the top rod while the bottom rod would act as a "swing stop" with the pipes notches being over it. Small rubber washers (or something else that won't conduct) could be used to keep the tubes separated. To me this would allow the pipes the easiest chance of "ringing" with the frequency needed without huge amounts of power being needed. We need to be thinking "musical instrument" and not "industrial vibrator".

[stevie1001]

I am looking too much on computers these days.......
@h2o2go
Perhaps you are right about the mechanical structure thing here.
I was more thinking about some kind of wavepipe, like you have with Ghz filter stuff.
The voltage wave should bounch between the innerpipe and the outerpipe as if the frequency of the wave matches the space between them.

Another theory:
At this moment we all put one wave in one pipe and the other pipe is ground.
Perhaps we have to start thinking of 2 waves. One in each pipe.
Try to get resonance between two frequencys, like 20khz and 60Khz. I read something about the 20Khz is nice to Hydrogen and the difference should be 1/3
Just some thought on the late Sunday afternoon..........

Please respond people.......

Br
Steve

[stevie1001]

Dear Site Admin,

Do you have a tread about pipes here on the forum? I think we are going to have a nice discussion about this subject and this tread is about serie or parallel coils.....

Br
Steve

[Site admin]

Hi Steve

not sure?.....but feel free to post a thread.

cheers

Site Admin

[KISS]

Just a thought...

Even if 2 tubes, inner and outer, are tuned to ring the same, once you put a spacer between the 2 to space them, that spacer would act as a dampner and the pipes would not ring. That would be the hanging a set of tubes from a string scenerio.

Other than that scenerio.... any touching of the pipes such as standing them on the floor of the cell container, connecting them to any mounting framwork, or even together, would dampen or disrupt the ringing of the pipes.

Not saying this would stop them from ringing at all... but would effect it considerably.

Stan had his set up to where all the tubes were tied together with a mounting plate.

Just some things to consider..... I smell brain cells burning... hehehe

[h2o2go]

[h2o2go]

[stevie1001]

Hi all,

Lets continue burning our brains cells out about the pipes/tubes and the Resonant Cavitys of Stanly Meyer on a new tread.
I opend it already.

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2210#2210

Here we can continue speaking about serie or parallel coils, if we like to.
You all agree on that?

Br
Steve