The Water Fuel Cell

[Kali_ma_Amar]

The Key to more efficiency?

Stanley stated several times, that it is very beneficial to use Stainless Steel 430F Wires to make the coils due to the high resistance compared to copper wires.
I think with such wires it would really be possible to increase the efficiency of the VIC a lot due to several reasons:
* The resistance of the wires also prevents current flow
* The resistance of the wire is beneficial for the RLC Resonance of the VIC
* The resistance of the wire in the bifilar coils increases the voltage drop in a coil winding which automatically increases the capacitance effect of the bifilar coil.

Up until now any resistive wire would also work. But Stan stated also that it would be beneficial if the wire is also magnetic, therefore 430F material.

He wired the coils with SS 430F wire from 0.1-0.15mm and the coils had about 11k each. That results in a wire length of about 170m

But my question to all of you out there.
Does anybody know where to get enamelled resistive wire or even better enamelled 430F wire?
Perfect would be, if they are enamelled with a high dielectric substance, like the Nysol or Poly-ML that Stan used on his wires.
I looked everywhere on the net but couldn't find any producer of enamelled 430F wire!!! So where did Stan get his wires from?
I would really be so grateful for any hint.

Edit: BTW In Europe 430F is known as 1.4104

[pneu engine]

I read in someone's post that Stan M. filed patents on many different configurations of his WFC operations with the express purpose to cover all of his bases. In so doing, he could prevent anyone else from infringement. I suspect the case with this SS wire.

I'd just use copper wire and be done with it.

[crux_wfc]

Special resistive wire is not necessary. Watch his New Zealand Lecture.

[Kali_ma_Amar]

I know the NZ video.

But I think that Stan wasn't really honest in this vid. For also his explanation why he wrote it in his patents although it's not needed is just hilarious and quite far fetched. Nobody could bypass his patent just by using a resistive wire...

I think in the patents and especially in the memo is more of the truth. Just my opinion.
This also has a reason: For what I think how the VIC works, it would really help to have resistance in the resonance coils. And also the 430F metal will help a lot to magnetically couple the 2 coils which is in my opinion very important to limit the current. (Compare to Tesla Patent 413353)
Many people think that his VIC-circuit cannot really resonate due to the diode. but this is actually not true if you are using bifilar coils, for they will introduce a capacitance in the circuit which will bypass the diode, so that you get a real RLC Resonance circuit. The diode is just needed, that you only introduce Power in the Resonance circuit and not to loose in a backpowering of the secondary in the primary of the stepup. But if you wire all of them on the same core and you really let it run on the resonance freq, then you don't even need the diode anymore as seen in the memo pic of stan's vic coil. But it's really hard to get in on resonance, even with an oscilloscope. I simulated on PSpice and although the simulating is just a rough pic of the reality it was very difficult to tune the parameters so that you get resonance. But if you get resonance you will immediately see it as the voltage really goes up...But e.g. only changing the capacity by 1pf and the voltage is again much smaller...Very very delicate to tune...

Sure, it will work also by just inputting the freq pattern on the cell as lawton and ravi did, and if some parameters match it will also be more than faraday, but to become really as efficient as stan did, you have to get into resonance with his VIC circuit.
So far it didn't even see one person (of all the scope pics I saw in the different forums) who was actually even able to manage to get the frequency doubling of the input (without using a bridge ). To get this voltage step up waveform is very easy, but already to get it with the pulse doubling is quite hard, for this already means, that your components actually match.

The white calciumcarbonate coating that ravi described as essential is in my opinion actually only needed if the VIC doesn't work correctly (in resonance), as you have to introduce an additional resistance on the negative plates to limit current (BTW, Just exactly as Stan describes in his earlier prototypes, see Pat 4798661, when he didn't developed the VIC yet, and just used direct application of pulses). Actually if you get this white coating it actually indicates that your VIC doesn't work as intended, for otherwise the metal ions would just get neutralized and fall out, but not get electroplated at the neg plate (which is only possible if current is flowing).
But i will do more tests to verify simulation in reality.

[crux_wfc]

[Kali_ma_Amar]

[emuntinga]

hello all

found a link to get teflon insulated stainless steel wire with a thickness of 37 awg.

http://www.a-msystems.com/electronics/wire/stainlesssteelsingletef.aspx

ernst

[h2o2go]

It's electron flow and ion flow. Ones instantaneous and one isn't. You use the electrons and turn off before the ions really begin to move. A capacitor with a viable dielectric allows the electrons to move and accumulate but blocks the ions thus causing the charge (difference in potential).

Or something like that.

[Ron Knight]

Kali_ma_Amar asked the question; does anyone know where to get the wire specified in Stan's patent and the answer would be yes, I do know where you can...more than likely get the wire you want. Anyone that manufactures copper magnet wire probably will manufactures SS magnet wire as well...insulated to your order. The problem will be ordering a minimum run. Most wire sizers do not like doing small runs but will for say a thousand dollar minimum order. A thousand dollars does not go far with SS anymore.

I would suggest the SS wire was a necessary part of the process to make the coils in some of his designs such as the Resonant Cavities that are used to prime gas ions prior to entering the Hydrogen Gas Gun which appears to use the SS wire as well. See patent 4,826,581 figures 2 and 3

Hope this helps

[Kbagger]

i bought a reel of ss mig wire from peavey mart for 25 bucks CAD. pretty cheap, their welding stuff is either real cheap or real expensive, as they have poor marketing skills.

er308L
.030inch


i wrote this info down but it looks messed up now lol. ill double check it another time

woa.....dejavu..... trippy

it almost sounds like we can use any type of wire for this whole system. what you think about that.

[justooln2]

I have been making phone calls and emails, I have found what seems to be a good company to deal with. Very helpful and open. California Fine Wire http://calfinewire.com/ I just got a quote for 430 SS Litz (spiral wrapped) coated wire from them. It is not cheap, but its in the reasonable zone. that and seeing this crap cant be found anywhere else in the world, (it seems) Here is there quoted email. I just received last week.

1500 Feet of .004 x 2 strands (T;wisted Pair) of Stainless Steel 430 (CFW Material #: 100-412), Annealed temper, Material to be twisted together at 8-12 twists per inch, Each leg to be insulated with Heavy Polyimide insulation, Material to be provided on a spool, the price is $0.59/ft. with a delivery to ship of 7-8 weeks or sooner after receipt of your order.
Color Set Up Charge $350.00 / per color (If you would like each strand to be a different color other than natural).

And the Resistance Value email..
The single strand resistance value at nominal will be 22.50+-3.0% OHMS/CMF.

Hope this helps, Has ANYONE actually used this in a VIC YET????????

[cphinc]

Many years ago I was over-zealous about SSB, Ham, CB etc. I have had occasion to use this interest as skill for over 40 years at sea. In doing so I gathered an understanding of things such as Inductance, Capacitance etc. in their relationship to Standing Wave Ratios - SWR - To qualify my true interest in this idea of WFC possibilities I have been researching it Hands On for over 2 ++ years, I have made quite a few rigs from the original force/Might is right way of producing electrolysis and have succeeded with the same pitfalls as everyone who else tried it. So as of late I have been compiling quite a log of all pertinent facts, ideas and so on to get the machine to work as a radio transmitter should/would. Also the fact mentioned in your posting was about the oxidized film needed, well in a regular modern capacitor there is a oxidide layer cured on the plates and aged to increase the effect of electron build up and some form of self repairing, well enough.

My real point/question is, I am yet to see anyone utilize any instrument that is simular to a SWR meter, where in fact in my mind I have the predisposed idea/attitude that this is underwater frequency transmission just as in the fellow "Keeley" "Leeley" anyway something like that the fellow with a hole in his roof. at 42800, 620-630-42800 as resonant frequencies piled up. Even the reference to "tidal wave" is made in an experiment late in the 1800's or there abouts.

Please comment freely.

I also believe from a laymans point of view that the use of the ferritic stainless steel if applied to Ham Radio and ARRL knowledge just all rings true, traps, balumes, tipping coils etc can be seen everywhere in an effort top produce a strong "forward force" with minimal "back force" making the most of your energy available and get the most signal strength.

Again I am very interested if some-one, any-one would tell me if I am having a god or a bad brainfart/dream or should go back to sleep.

[dankie]

I have some of this wire , 430fr high silicon steel coated , pounds of it .

I bought some and resold it to remake my money of my 2500$ investment .

for 300$ I can sell you a pound wich contains 16000 feet .

[itzon]

What kind of coating does it have?